Trade Offs


There is a lot of demonization of people with opposing views, especially in politics.  The right sees the left as bad and/or confused and vice versa.  You rarely get intelligent discussions in which people agree that there are tradeoffs to a policy and rationally assess which policy will give the best tradeoffs or what compromise will be best. 

The most basic tradeoff is between freedom and property rights and the power of government to tax and exert other forms of control over us.  The right tends to favor more freedom and lower taxes whereas the left tends to favor the government forcefully redistributing the wealth with taxes. 

Is one belief good and right and the other wrong and bad?  We can find good in both approaches. 

We all can see the good in poor people having a roof over their head.  On the other hand welfare creates incentives to not be productive to not stay married and to have lots of babies that won't be brought up in a single family home in order to get more government aid.  Children who are brought up in single family homes are much more likely to become violent adults than children bought up to couples who stay married.

We also can see the good of allowing companies to accrue wealth as an incentive to make products that benefit us all.  Taking away the money from those companies with taxes could limit the good they can do, limit the number of people they can provide jobs for and even make them go out of business.  The money that the government takes away may be siphoned to pay corrupt government officials or to pay for immoral military actions etc..

Hillary says she wants to tax wealthy and the corporations (debate 3) and help the middle class and talks about how the middle class could help the economy.  She has a name for that.  The problem with that is she is removing the incentive to make money and create wealth.  The incentive becomes be middle class.  Why work hard to build a business.  Also she wants to waste it all on solar.

In her final debate she said:

I've made it very clear we are going where the money is. We are going to ask the wealthy and corporations to pay their fair share.

And there is no evidence whatsoever that that will slow down or diminish our growth. In fact, I think just the opposite. We'll have what economists call middle-out growth. We've got to get back to rebuilding the middle class, the families of America. That's where growth will come from. That's why I want to invest in you. I want to invest in your family.



She says experts say Trump will create a huge deficit but experts are political and economics is not an exact science.

 It may be that there is an optimal compromise between the two approaches and two much of a shift either way is bad.  It's important to note that even an optimal compromise of taxes and freedom from taxes is not ideal there are always tradeoffs. 

There are many on the right who say that makes the left so dangerous is that their belief that they can create a Utopia on earth and that the way to achieve that Utopia is for them to gain power and for those who stand in the way of their policies to be punished or even killed.  A person who believes his policies can create Utopia is likely to be a lot more ruthless toward the opponents of his policies than a person who just believes that changing some policies will make things better.  That is part of the reason why communists under Mao and Stalin killed millions of people. 

     There certainly seems to be more Utopianism on the left than on the right.  On the other hand one can have leftist beliefs such as that the government should provide more health care and benefits to the poor while recognizing the tradeoffs involved.  One doesn't have to be a fanatic Utopian to believe these things. 

      The problem may not be so much with the leftist beliefs as with Utopianism.  Utopians do not have a balanced view of tradeoffs.  Their way in their view is the right way those who stand in the way of heaven on earth must be stopped.  The ends in the case of a Utopian justifies the means and whatever tradeoffs there are, are worth achieving their vision of paradise. 

Utopians become blind to the good because it isn't as good as they want it to be.  They hate America because America isn't paradise and don't see the good in America and share negative beliefs that others have toward America.  Sharing those beliefs lead them to think America's enemies are justified in their hostility toward America.

      The problem with the Obama administration may not be that Obama wanted to provide health insurance to the poor.  The problem may be that he was Utopian in his thinking and made health insurance extravagantly expensive for everyone who wasn't poor yet.  The debt that is growing under Obama's policies will ensure that we will all be poor.  That is the tradeoff that has to be stressed, that pushing the pendulum toward the extreme left will not accomplish the goals of the left it will bring about a Venezuela. Obama's Iran deal may be in part because his Utopian tendencies led him to believe that Iran was justified in feeling hostility to America.  In fact Kerry gave a speech in which he said how we have to understand the Iranians and how our support for Iraq led them to be hostile etc..  Never mind that the Iranians seized American hostages before the United States helped Iraq fight Iran.  Obama's use of the IRS to persecute those on the right fit in with the Utopian belief that the ends of deterring opposition justify the means. 

      The successful way to oppose Obama's and Hillary Clinton is not to demonize them but rather to focus on the tradeoffs of their policies.  Arguing that the Obama administration just wants universal health care so he can control everyone will make most people think you're crazy because most people sympathize with the idea of universal health care, they just don't want to pay for it.  Most people support the idea of more money for the poor but don't want to pay for that either. The left is smart they argue that there are no tradeoffs.  They say that they will just make the rich pay their fair share and everyone else will benefit.   It's crucial that the right not left the left get away with that lie.  There are always tradeoffs.  Even in the unlikely event that they only increased taxes on the wealthy that would make lead to companies having less money to hire and force them out of business.  The left argues that they stopped Iran from getting the bomb without firing a shot.  Again they are pretending that there are not tradeoffs.  The right must not left them get away with that.  Pence was very good in the vice presidential debate.  Every time Kaine said they had stopped Iran without firing a shot he said "No you haven't" and pointed out that after 10 years Iran would be able to get the bomb.  That's assuming the Iranian comply with their agreements  The Iranians have recently surrounded the Fordo nuclear site which is built 300 feet below a mountain with S300 air defense missiles.  Why would they do that if they are complying with the agreement and just using it for peaceful purposes.  No one wants America to go to war with Iran but no one wants Iranian nuclear missiles to blow up in America either and if the Iranians get hold of nuclear missiles it is very probably they or their Hezbollah surrogates will use them.  The American right needs to make that very clear. 

Everyone is sympathetic with the plight of the civilian victims of Assad but many do not want hostile Muslims pouring into the United States. The winning argument against Hillary may be to say that yes we want more people to have health care and yes we don't to go to war with Iran and yes we sympathize with the refugees but sacrificing our own wellbeing to achieve these goals will not achieve these goals and will make things worse for everyone.

Examples of the Ends justifying the Means.  Hiring mentally ill people to do crazy things at Trump rallies.

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CLINTON: ... as I said, trumped-up trickle-down. Trickle-down did not work. It got us into the mess we were in, in 2008 and 2009. Slashing taxes on the wealthy hasn't worked.

And a lot of really smart, wealthy people know that. And they are saying, hey, we need to do more to make the contributions we should be making to rebuild the middle class.

CLINTON: I don't think top-down works in America. I think building the middle class, investing in the middle class, making college debt-free so more young people can get their education, helping people refinance their -- their debt from college at a lower rate. Those are the kinds of things that will really boost the economy. Broad-based, inclusive growth is what we need in America, not more advantages for people at the very top.


2nd debate

But weíre bringing the tax rate down from 35 percent to 15 percent. Weíre cutting taxes for the middle class. And I will tell you, we are cutting them big league for the middle class.

And I will tell you, Hillary Clinton is raising your taxes, folks. You can look at me. Sheís raising your taxes really high. And what thatís going to do is a disaster for the country. But she is raising your taxes and Iím lowering your taxes. That in itself is a big difference. We are going to be thriving again. We have no growth in this country. Thereís no growth. If China has a GDP of 7 percent, itís like a national catastrophe. Weíre down at 1 percent. And thatís, like, no growth. And weíre going lower, in my opinion. And a lot of it has to do with the fact that our taxes are so high, just about the highest in the world. And Iím bringing them down to one of the lower in the world. And I think itís so important ó one of the most important things we can do. But she is raising everybodyís taxes massively....

but Iíll tell you what heís going to do. His plan will give the wealthy and corporations the biggest tax cuts theyíve ever had, more than the Bush tax cuts by at least a factor of two. Donald always takes care of Donald and people like Donald, and this would be a massive gift. And, indeed, the way that he talks about his tax cuts would end up raising taxes on middle-class families, millions of middle-class families.

Now, hereís what I want to do. I have said nobody who makes less than $250,000 a year ó and thatís the vast majority of Americans as you know ó will have their taxes raised, because I think weíve got to go where the money is. And the money is with people who have taken advantage of every single break in the tax code.

And, yes, when I was a senator, I did vote to close corporate loopholes. I voted to close, I think, one of the loopholes he took advantage of when he claimed a billion-dollar loss that enabled him to avoid paying taxes.

I want to have a tax on people who are making a million dollars. Itís called the Buffett rule. Yes, Warren Buffett is the one whoís gone out and said somebody like him should not be paying a lower tax rate than his secretary. I want to have a surcharge on incomes above $5 million.

We have to make up for lost times, because I want to invest in you. I want to invest in hard-working families. And I think itís been unfortunate, but itís happened, that since the Great Recession, the gains have all gone to the top. And we need to reverse that.

People like Donald, who paid zero in taxes, zero for our vets, zero for our military, zero for health and education, that is wrong.




Gamaliel Isaac DP comment 10/19 2016

The accusation that Trump is a xenophobic racist is typical of left wing Democrats. That's what they do when you disagree with their policies. Trump is against illegal immigration but illegal immigrants vote for Democrats so the Democrats are for it. If illegal immigrants voted Republican Democrats would be for tougher immigration laws. Republicans want voter ID to prevent voter fraud but Democrats benefit from voter fraud and so are against voter ID and accuse those who are for it of being racist. Trump is for not allowing in Jihadists into the United States so the left accuses him of racism. That's because Muslim immigrants vote Democrat. They are brought here and put on welfare and they know where their welfare check is coming from. There is a price to Democrat policies and not just the increase in terrorism that follows importing jihadis. It is a ballooning debt that will bring our economy crashing down and with it all the benefits the Democrats believe they are getting by voting Democrat. The price we pay for the appeasement or Iran by Hillary and Obama will be a nuclear armed Iran. Anyone who doesn't know what a threat that is should watch videos of massive Iranian mobs led by Iranian leaders shouting death to America. Finally minimizing Hillary's email escapades does not make them any less significant. She hid her illegal pay for play policies by deleting her emails after they were subpoenaed by Congress. For her the ends justify the means no matter how illegal those means are. Outrageously Democrats with her knowledge have been inciting violence at Trump rallies to make Trump look bad. All you have to do to get hit at a leftist rally is where a make America great again hat. That is because the left is a party that has moved to the extreme left. It is a party that believes that the ends justify the means and that doesn't understand that their extremist ends will only achieve disaster for everyone

Point Trump will make is "Your policies will not achieve your goals on the contrary"